You have just entered room "cil102sidbury."
drjamessidbury: I got home in time but I need to put drops in my eye, BRB
amyo8x2 has entered the room.
drjamessidbury: OK, I'm ready
drjamessidbury: who has a question/comment peripherally related to the course?
PaulinaM2012: There's a new kindle that is better for viewing textbooks.
drjamessidbury: I've pretty much got the lab material set up on its site except for the Library module and the myITLab stuff
marix3anne: have you already discussed the next step in our big project or is that something we will talk about tonight?
drjamessidbury: What is your (all of you) opinion of "book readers" such as the Kendle or the Sony <whateveritscalled>
drjamessidbury: If you want to ask questions about steps in the project feel free to do so. But I probably will not mention much about it from now on
rtzjm8: I tried finding the purchasable access code for myITLab, but couldn't find it. Do you have a link to that website?
marix3anne: okay, what exactly is the next step?
drjamessidbury: OH, and one point that I did put on the Web site but is not in the write up.
drjamessidbury: Your password for the Web site is your Royal ID (including the R capitalized)
borysboy: is the user name all lowercase?
drjamessidbury: There are three "next" steps
drjamessidbury: yes the username is all lowercase
drjamessidbury: 1. gather data for the project
drjamessidbury: 2. analyze the data in excel
BB uu GG 22 44: Is that what is needed when you go to publish your website
drjamessidbury: 3 create a powerpoint for a "talk" about your project
drjamessidbury: 4. create a Web page for the project to put the excel and powerpoint on
marix3anne: okay so we create this website after we have completed the powerpoint?
drjamessidbury: perhaps the web page would include pictures or other appropriate stuff to impress me
drjamessidbury: the order in which you do these is up to you
marix3anne: okay
rtzjm8: I tried finding the purchasable access code for myITLab, but couldn't find it.  Do you have a link to that website?
marix3anne: when is the final product due?
drjamessidbury: but of course you have to gather the data before analyzing it
drjamessidbury: and you have to analyze it before creating the PowerPoint.
drjamessidbury: but you can do the Web page before or after the others.
drjamessidbury: I sort of recommend doing it before if you're going to spiff it up to impress me and the rest of the class.
marix3anne: okay
drjamessidbury: let me check
rtzjm8: thanks
drjamessidbury: It wont let me cut and paste
drjamessidbury: so go to www.mypearsonstore.com
rtzjm8: OK could u put it on the website, please?
drjamessidbury: www.mypearsonstore.com/bookstore
drjamessidbury: and then look for myITLab for Go! with Microsoft Office 2007
drjamessidbury: the cost is 65 dollars and is available for immediate delivery with credit card purchase
drjamessidbury: I'll put it on the Web site with a link to the exact copy
amyo8x2: thank you
marix3anne: thanks!
rtzjm8: thanks!
drjamessidbury: You'll also probably have to find a copy of the book that goes with it
marix3anne: i found an interesting article yesterday in the philadelphia inquirer...
drjamessidbury: OK...
amyo8x2: is the book deff. necessary you think?
marix3anne: it talked about a technology that came out in november
dialkyle19 has entered the room.
marix3anne: it allows voter tracking for campaigners via their blackberrys and portable laptops
drjamessidbury: ask other people who took the course before whether they think the book is necessary
drjamessidbury: what is "voter tracking" exactly?
amyo8x2: i was just going to ask that
marix3anne: well it means that they can learn in real time which voters have gone to the polls, their voting history,etc
marix3anne: within a certain area
amyo8x2: by name..?
marix3anne: more like by demographics
rtzjm8: or by party?
amyo8x2: i was gonna say..
marix3anne: yeah i dont think they can get that specific that they would know your name
drjamessidbury: I'm very much against that unless the voter has to opt in to allow this kind of tracking
amyo8x2: yeah, agreed
drjamessidbury: It's none of the business of campaigners what I'm doing
marix3anne: yeah it was sort of scary... almost like big brother
rtzjm8: I totally agree. That is why we live in the US, for freedom of choice.
marix3anne: yeah so iot allows these campaigners to redirect their efforts to other districts if needed
drjamessidbury: In fact during the last election I sent an e-mail to several candidates and told them that if I got a phone call from a recording or an e-mail other than a response to the one I sent that I would not vote for them
marix3anne: it was used in the recent atlantic city mayoral elections
PaulinaM2012: did it work?
amyo8x2: and did you get any calls?
drjamessidbury: It helped a little bit
amyo8x2: i think those calls are so annoying. its like... if im going to vote, ill do my own research, thanks
PaulinaM2012: does that "do-not-call" list work as well?
drjamessidbury: I did get a few calls from actual people
drjamessidbury: charities and political campaigns are exempt from the do-not-call list unless there's a new law
drjamessidbury: In fact I suggested to my congressman that sponsorship of a bill to allow do-not-call for charities and political campaigns would be a plus for him when the next election came up.
drjamessidbury: so far I haven't heard from him
rtzjm8: I found an interesting article (again on newsmax.com) about how Louisiana is trying to institute a surcharge on internet usage.
drjamessidbury: ROLL CALL
PaulinaM2012: that's strange, my friend sent an email about a certain political issue, and even though the politician did not agree, my friend got a form letter back
marix3anne: marianne patterson
rtzjm8: Molly Hritzo
borysboy: Jesse Borys
amyo8x2: Amy O'Connell
PaulinaM2012: Paulina maida
BB uu GG 22 44: Donald Belcher
dialkyle19: kyle frank
amyo8x2: a surcharge on internet usage??
drjamessidbury: I have received "personal" response via e-mail from Kanjorski when I e-mailed him about steroids in baseball
rtzjm8: yeah, to
drjamessidbury: I think there's a federal law that prevents an internet surcharge
rtzjm8: "pay" for investigations of Internet crimes
drjamessidbury: but there's probably a way to get around it.
rtzjm8: they say that this could surmount it
marix3anne: so the state of louisiana would be able to charge anyone just for signing onto the internet?
drjamessidbury: We'd need to read the article to find out.
rtzjm8: exactly! It seems outrageous. the governor is against it but so far the state house has passed the Bill
PaulinaM2012: where does the money go?
drjamessidbury: and of course we need to bear in mind that the article is written by a journalist who is probably not technologically or legally trained
drjamessidbury: so who knows what is actually being done.
rtzjm8: it goes to a government institution to investigate internet crimes, esp. against kids
drjamessidbury: the money of course would go to the friends of politicians
rtzjm8: of course!
borysboy: lol
amyo8x2: lol
drjamessidbury: Is there anyone who has NOT (accidentally) gotten porn on the internet?
amyo8x2: hi random question lol
drjamessidbury: And assuming that you were 15 or so when you were uh... exposed did it really do harm to you?
drjamessidbury: I don't see the big deal
drjamessidbury: It's parental responsibility to police this
marix3anne: i'd rather not have it pop up but when it comes down to it its more of a pain to pay a surcharge
amyo8x2: yeah there are so many ways to block websites
rtzjm8: can't u build it into u'r firewall to block it?
drjamessidbury: but it's like steroids in baseball ... there's a strong public opinion on one side of the issue
drjamessidbury: using a firewall would make blocking it very difficult because of what you'd need to succeed
amyo8x2: what would you have to do? buy some kind ofprogram?
drjamessidbury: For example if I put some kitty porn (I have pictures of my cats licking each other) on my Web site, how would anyone know that it was there?
kurnathc2: can some IM me the last like 2 mins? my aim signed me off again
amyo8x2: sure
kurnathc2: thanks
drjamessidbury: There are programs that are relatively successful and of course parents can set up a history trace so that they will know where their kids went
drjamessidbury: and these programs can be set up to allow restricted surfing
amyo8x2: i remember one of my friends in high school had this thing on her computer that sent all of her internet chats and everything to her mom
drjamessidbury: for example, I could set up my home network to prohibit use of the internet from 10 pm on for certain accounts on my home system
drjamessidbury: or allow only certain web sites
drjamessidbury: All of that is discussed in the Firewall section of network security in general
drjamessidbury: FWIW I will post a copy of this complete chat at the end of the session today.
drjamessidbury: the first two are up now as as far as I can tell they work OK
rtzjm8: thanks
kurnathc2: thanks!
amyo8x2: ok
drjamessidbury: does anyone have any questions/comments on Network Security?
kurnathc2: im good
rtzjm8: me too
marix3anne: me three
borysboy: nope
dialkyle19: is firewall better for a home computer or for a large network of computers
rtzjm8: a large network?
drjamessidbury: it's useful for both
drjamessidbury: The U has a firewall connecting the entire campus to the outside world
drjamessidbury: You should have some kind of firewall on your computer/system
BB uu GG 22 44: Is it better to have a firewall or just a anti- virus program
drjamessidbury: If yolu have a home network then the modem/router/access point probably has a firewall in it
marix3anne: is cisco clean access agent the firewall?
drjamessidbury: you need both a firewall and an anti-virus
borysboy: unless you have a mac?
BB uu GG 22 44: okay
drjamessidbury: clean access is actually neither or maybe a combination of both
marix3anne: okay
drjamessidbury: so far viruses for macs have not surfaced "in the wild"
drjamessidbury: but there is still enough malware that mac owners have to be careful
drjamessidbury: I have a firewall on my mac and anti-virus software but the a-v software is primarily to keep me from inadvertently forwarding e-mail with viruses to others.
amyo8x2: ok how come macs dont (often) get viruses like other computers do
drjamessidbury: The U's firewall system is not just a program but an entire computer plus software devoted to profiling the campus use of the internet
drjamessidbury: several reasons for the paucity of mac viruses
drjamessidbury: Windows is much more common so a virus writer can wreak more damage by creating a Windows virus
BB uu GG 22 44: who creates all the viruses? I think it's the software people, so you have to buy all their anti-virus software and they can make more money
rtzjm8: it makes sense!
amyo8x2: i was just going to say... why would people even create viruses!
amyo8x2: but there you go..
drjamessidbury: However since ther has so far been no successful mac virus for os x the first one to propigate one will be famous in the hacker community
borysboy: I think so too lol
PaulinaM2012: interesting....
amyo8x2: hmm..
drjamessidbury: why do kids egg cars or key them or let the air out of tires?
rtzjm8: destructiveness
borysboy: for fun
PaulinaM2012: because they are "rebelling"
drjamessidbury: some people just like to be *ssh*l*s
drjamessidbury: there are also some that do it for a living
borysboy: you can't see your damage though through a virus
amyo8x2: lol
borysboy: or you can't see people's reactions so it's kinda pointless
amyo8x2: for a living? like who, the "sftware people?"
drjamessidbury: I'm sure that there are government agencies that are creating viruses to screw up terrorists computers and I'm sure that terrorists are doing the same thing
drjamessidbury: but it's certainly the case that security software companies benefit from viruses
PaulinaM2012: how do people who create viruses send them to other people?
amyo8x2: yeah..
amyo8x2: emails?
drjamessidbury: the downside is that if say mcaffee could be linked to virus creation and release in the wild then their business would be hurt considerably
BB uu GG 22 44: it's kind of like the movie Independence Day when they land in the alien mothership and put a virus in the main computer to kill them
drjamessidbury: funny how aliens run unix on their computers
amyo8x2: lol
drjamessidbury: the most common way of sending viruses today is via e-mails and by putting malicious code on certain Web sites
BB uu GG 22 44: lol
drjamessidbury: fortunately many browsers today are capable of detecting maliciousness on web sites
PaulinaM2012: why would you send a virus to someone you are friends with?? (assuming the email address you have are all of friends)
drjamessidbury: Consider the following scenario.
drjamessidbury: I write a virus and what it does is screw up your computer but before doing that
drjamessidbury: it reads your address book and gets the e-mail addresses of everyone who is saved there.
BB uu GG 22 44: in e-mail What exactly is spam, and how does your e-mail recognize the e-mail as spam
rtzjm8: that would be devestating
drjamessidbury: then it sends an e-mail message to everyone on this list with a virus attached and an innocuous message that makes it sort of plausible that the message came from you
drjamessidbury: spam is unsolicited e-mail that's sent to a large number of people.
amyo8x2: im assuming these emails dont show up under "sent mail"
BB uu GG 22 44: oh alright
drjamessidbury: well every week the computer center at the U sends out an email with news of the week on a link that you can check out
drjamessidbury: they don't consider it to be spam of course
borysboy: lol
rtzjm8: it can be though
marix3anne: it most definately is
drjamessidbury: If I wanted to send spam I could forge the headers of e-mail messages so that it looked like it was coming from someone else and forward it through another e-mail system
amyo8x2: forge the headers..?
rtzjm8: kinda like forging a check
drjamessidbury: Every day I win the lottery and even have the opportunity to help split a gazillion dollars with a banker in Nigeria by just pretending to be someone else's relative
drjamessidbury: and this doesn't even include the offers that I have to improve my sex life
borysboy: can you send me that email? sounds interesting
amyo8x2: hahah
drjamessidbury: in the section about how e-mail works it discusses what headers show up on e-mail messages
amyo8x2: gotcha
drjamessidbury: are you interested in money or sex?
amyo8x2: hahaha or both
amyo8x2: sorry
borysboy: both
borysboy: lol
amyo8x2: lol
drjamessidbury: I'll be glad to do so.
drjamessidbury: If you paypal me 50 dollars to prove your good faith, I'll send you 100,000 dollars in return plus some pills to may your uh ... personal member really large
drjamessidbury: and if you do it within the next 10 minutes I;ll send you some spray that will make you irrestible to women (or men if you prefer) and some good pickup lines
drjamessidbury: but you only have 5 more minutes
amyo8x2: hahaha
borysboy: if it's through paypal though it's not a scam, I could retract my money
drjamessidbury: Well my bank doesn't open until next Tuesday so I'll send you the money then
rtzjm8: weird bank! In the cayman Islands? haha
amyo8x2: loll
kurnathc2: haha
drjamessidbury: probably
drjamessidbury: I can fill you in on the details if you call my 1-900 number
rtzjm8: lol
borysboy: last year my friend got a $3,000 check from someone who bought something from him on ebay, the item was like $100
kurnathc2: wow rly?
borysboy: they told him to just cash the check and send them the remaining cash
rtzjm8: wow, wonder how that happened?
drjamessidbury: and did you know that there are actually some 800 numbers that can put charges on your phone?
PaulinaM2012: did he?
borysboy: he sent the check back lol
amyo8x2: wow
drjamessidbury: when the check is put in his bank account his account number and other stuff shows up
drjamessidbury: my daughter tried to sell a cell phone two years ago (a fancy t-mobile whose name escapes me) and each of the first two auctions someone upped the bid at the last minute and then wanted her to send the phone to their son in Europe
drjamessidbury: It took her three tries to actually find a legitimate buyer for the phone
drjamessidbury: How many of you have home networks?
rtzjm8: i do
borysboy: I do
BB uu GG 22 44: I do
dialkyle19: i dont
drjamessidbury: that is several computers hooked to the internet and can use them all simultaneously
kurnathc2: i do
marix3anne: oh .. i do
amyo8x2: i do too
PaulinaM2012: i do
drjamessidbury: OK everyone but Kyle it looks like
drjamessidbury: how many of you DON'T have wireless on your home network?
BB uu GG 22 44: It makes it easier to win on online poker with a home network lol
borysboy: lol cheater
drjamessidbury: do you play online poker?
BB uu GG 22 44: yes
drjamessidbury: for keeps or for play money?
BB uu GG 22 44: Both
drjamessidbury: tell us about it
drjamessidbury: meanwhile I'll ask some more questions about your home networks
BB uu GG 22 44: Actually play on poker stars, but even though I have a home network when playing for real money it only allows you to use one computer on the system
drjamessidbury: do any of you have a wireless home network which is NOT secured?
drjamessidbury: that makes sense
BB uu GG 22 44: but if you're playing for fake money chips you can use as many computers as you want
marix3anne: no
amyo8x2: i dont
drjamessidbury: otherwise you could be two players at the same game
amyo8x2: i mean mine is secured
rtzjm8: my wireless network is secured
drjamessidbury: what kind of security do you use
drjamessidbury: one possible answer is "I don't know"
borysboy: WPA2
marix3anne: norton
amyo8x2: i dont know..
marix3anne: and spyware
PaulinaM2012: i don't know
BB uu GG 22 44: You can get around it if you have a dial up and a network and play at the same table
drjamessidbury: and probably soem people do
rtzjm8: we use WEP 2
drjamessidbury: is there anyone who has not changed their SSID from what came with the system
BB uu GG 22 44: I know many of people that do that actually
drjamessidbury: there is no such thing as wep2 there's wep and wpa2
drjamessidbury: all of these technologies encrypt the data that's sent across your network.
drjamessidbury: do any of you use mac filtering or turn broadcast off?
borysboy: what's the benefit of doing that?
drjamessidbury: I have broadcast turned off and use wpa2 on part of my network and wep on the rest
borysboy: and if I turn that off will my computer still auto connect when I turn it on?
drjamessidbury: mac filtering allows you to control which computers have access because the mac address is unique to the hardware of your computer
rtzjm8: our broadcast is off, and we use WEP
drjamessidbury: unless you work for the FBI, CIA or mafia in which case you probably have special hardware that allows you to spoof mac addresses
drjamessidbury: but I won't comment on that any more because otherwise I'd have to kill you.
borysboy: lol
amyo8x2: haha
borysboy: which one are you in?
PaulinaM2012: all 3!
drjamessidbury: WEP is not very secure but unfortunately that's all the verizon internet provides
amyo8x2: hed tell you... but then hed have to kill you
rtzjm8: haha, all bet
drjamessidbury: If you have a linksys router then it's default SSID is "linksys"
rtzjm8: no
drjamessidbury: a student in my class last fall laughed about this when I was explaining it because she had discovered that both her family and her neighbor's family had linksys routers and her room was closer to the neighbor's house than the place where the main computer was in her house so when she went online she was actually
drjamessidbury: using her neighbor's network
drjamessidbury: it was not encrypted
kurnathc2: i have done that
borysboy: lol
kurnathc2: lol
amyo8x2: lol i used my neighbors wireless at school (off campus) because for some reason it worked better than the router i had in the living room
drjamessidbury: I can detect 3 separate networks from my home office from me and two neighbors
drjamessidbury: I'm not surprised
BB uu GG 22 44: yes sometimes I'll drive around the neighborhood until I can find wireless connection if mine is out lol
amyo8x2: it was one of my friends so he gave me the password for it... i dont understand why my own router didnt give me a good connection though. there were only 3 other people on it
rtzjm8: those in my neighborhood are all password protected
drjamessidbury: go sit in the parking lot of a Holiday Inn or other hotel
amyo8x2: yeah true
drjamessidbury: they usually have open networks
amyo8x2: a lot of hotels give you a wireless code on something in your room
borysboy: either that or the password is "a room number" such as 101
amyo8x2: yeah
PaulinaM2012: I wish they could create a wireless network that went with you in the car
amyo8x2: lol
amyo8x2: right?
drjamessidbury: fortunately despite all their faults verizon is relatively robust and seldom goes down
drjamessidbury: you can.
rtzjm8: very true, hasn't gone down yet
drjamessidbury: Basically it's a cellular modem
marix3anne: my township wont allow fios otherwise wed have verizon
drjamessidbury: I saw an ad for a verizon netbook for 99 dollars with a free cellular modem (for only a two year committment to a 39 dollar data plan
drjamessidbury: per month and it's probably limited to the amount of traffic that can be used
amyo8x2: 99 dollars??
amyo8x2: sweet
drjamessidbury: well the "old" iPhone is now 99 dollars (with a two year plan) from ATT and an iPhone is just a computer with a really bitty screen and a sucky keyboard
drjamessidbury: Are you ready to go to Data?
kurnathc2: yup
amyo8x2: sure
drjamessidbury: Hearing no objections or questions let's take a 5 minute break
dialkyle19: k
kurnathc2: kk
marix3anne: okay
PaulinaM2012: ok
rtzjm8: ok
borysboy: sounds good
BB uu GG 22 44: ok
amyo8x2: sounds good
drjamessidbury: OK
kurnathc2: kk
amyo8x2: ok
drjamessidbury: let's start the data section
rtzjm8: ok
borysboy: ok
PaulinaM2012: ok
marix3anne: okay
dialkyle19: k
drjamessidbury: the hard part is the first part dealing with the binary number system and bits, bytes, and words
rtzjm8: so a byte is 8 bits
drjamessidbury: If you want an A in the course you'll have to take the final exam and there will be a question or two about binary numbers so you have to have a simple understanding of how it works
drjamessidbury: Since you were supposed to have read the section on binary numbers, does anyone want to start with a question or comment?
rtzjm8: will the questions be converting btwn regular numbers and binary?
borysboy: so you'll give us a number and then ask us what the binary number is?
drjamessidbury: that's one possibility
amyo8x2: hmm ok
drjamessidbury: the short answer is that I haven't made up the final so I don't know exactly what I'll put there but if you understand number conversion then you have a pretty good handle on binary numbers
rtzjm8: ok, it makes sense, the power of 2 thing
PaulinaM2012: is the hexadecimal number system as important as binary?
drjamessidbury: 0, 1, 10, 11, 100, 101, .. is how you count in binary
drjamessidbury: hex is not as important.
drjamessidbury: it's very important for professional programmers and also to people who use computers for graphic work
rtzjm8: like designers using CAD
drjamessidbury: the reason for its importance to graphics is that different colors are represented by hex numbers
PaulinaM2012: oh ok
drjamessidbury: not so much for CAD but rather for web site design and photo manipulation
PaulinaM2012: i was wondering if it was because hex is more condensed than binary
rtzjm8: oh ok
drjamessidbury: when you build your web page the style section may have an entry that says something like
drjamessidbury: color: black;
drjamessidbury: which would be used to make the text on a page black
drjamessidbury: or background: white;
drjamessidbury: to make the background of the page white.
drjamessidbury: well there are 216 different colors that can be safely used on the Web and ther are not 216 different names so for example you might put something like
drjamessidbury: background : #666666
rtzjm8: is that why most pix on the web are low resolution?
amyo8x2: ahhh gotcha
drjamessidbury: which would give you a light gray background
drjamessidbury: pix on the web are low resolution primarily because high resolution pictures take a long time to load.
rtzjm8: oh
drjamessidbury: For example if you use dial-up the photo of me on my contact info page takes about 1 second to load.
drjamessidbury: a high resolution picture might take 30 seconds to load
drjamessidbury: and most people don't want to wait that long to load a picture.
amyo8x2: right
drjamessidbury: typically you can find higher quality images that you can download but you probably don't want to put them on a Web page
rtzjm8: i see
drjamessidbury: so for most of you hex will not play an important part in your use of the computer
drjamessidbury: when you do the digital image manipulation lab there are things in GIMP that allow you to use hex to modify pictures, but I don't think that I require them except maybe in the logo making part.
drjamessidbury: so the geek joke for the day is
drjamessidbury: there are 10 kinds of people
drjamessidbury: those who understand binary and those who don't
borysboy: lol
marix3anne: i get that!
amyo8x2: lol
kurnathc2: haha
PaulinaM2012: haha
rtzjm8: haha
drjamessidbury: if you don't get it then you need to reread that section
drjamessidbury: whether you think it's funny is entirely up to you
amyo8x2: ha
PaulinaM2012: i'm actually proud of myself that i got that
rtzjm8: I read it as 2 to my parents, and my dad got it
BB uu GG 22 44: lol It was a little dry
drjamessidbury: It's not a good joke to read outloud
drjamessidbury: on to bits bytes and words
marix3anne: okay
drjamessidbury: the concept here is really simple
drjamessidbury: a bit is either a zero or a one
drjamessidbury: so a bit can represent two different values
rtzjm8: a byte is 8 bits right
rtzjm8: switched on or off?
drjamessidbury: but there aren't many things that come in only two choices
drjamessidbury: true false
drjamessidbury: male female
drjamessidbury: parent child
drjamessidbury: although I have a parent so that analogy is not perfect
drjamessidbury: black white
drjamessidbury: if you're only using two colors
drjamessidbury: a byte has been 8 bits since about 1964
drjamessidbury: and it's just a string of bits
drjamessidbury: 01000100
rtzjm8: who chose 8?
drjamessidbury: originally a byte was 6 bits
marix3anne: oh i think this was on the history of the internet
drjamessidbury: which gave patterns from 000000 to 111111 a total of 2x2x2x2x2x2=64 possibilities
drjamessidbury: and this was enough when computing was just beginning
drjamessidbury: you had 10 for the digits
drjamessidbury: 0,1,2,3,4,5,...9
drjamessidbury: and 26 for the alphabet
drjamessidbury: A B C D E
drjamessidbury: BACK THEN COMPUTERS WEREN'T USED FOR WORD PROCESSING SO THEY WERE RESTRICTED TO CAPITAL LETTERS ONLY
drjamessidbury: AND SOME FOR punctuation marks
drjamessidbury: ,.!@*&) and a blank space
drjamessidbury: but it soon became desirable to add lower case letters which increased the total to more than 64 possibilities.
drjamessidbury: and so they went up to the next evel total which was 8 bits
rtzjm8: oh, was that the ENIAC guys?
drjamessidbury: this gave 2 to the 8th power possible patterns which is 256
BB uu GG 22 44: nice lil snapple fact right there dr.
amyo8x2: lol
drjamessidbury: I think the ENIAC and also UNIVAC and EDSAC and a bunch of other early computers only used captial letters.
drjamessidbury: but the ENIAC represented numbers as decimal
drjamessidbury: and if you look at your keyboard it probably has no more than about 100 keys so if you shift them then you only get 200 or so possibilities and that's why bytes are 8 bits
rtzjm8: what about control and ALT
rtzjm8: are they only commands?
drjamessidbury: the other important point here is that computers are used for communication so that means that the codes on my computer have to be the same as the codes on your computer if we were to exchange information
drjamessidbury: well control and alternate can be used with some keys but that still doesn't raise the total too high.
drjamessidbury: for example some key combinations can be obtained in several ways.
drjamessidbury: to explain (with a made up and therefore probably false example)
drjamessidbury: alt tab may give the same code as control backspace
drjamessidbury: in this particular case I know that they don't
drjamessidbury: and if you use two bytes then you have 65536 different choices so actually some keyboard combinations do not translate to a single byte
drjamessidbury: but anything you're likely to type will
drjamessidbury: and even if you do shift-control-backspace (i.e. using more than one "shift" key at a time) doesn't raise the total that high
drjamessidbury: bytes can also by broken down into half bytes (4 bits each) which is the basis for hex.
drjamessidbury: i.e. the binary 10001101 is 1000 1101 which in hex is 8d
drjamessidbury: each of these pieces (used to be) called a nybble since that's sort of half a byte
drjamessidbury: but the term probably even embarassed us geeks so it's hardly ever used now
drjamessidbury: so a byte is to a bite as a nybble is to a nibble
amyo8x2: a nybble? lol
amyo8x2: thats funny
rtzjm8: but most people nowadays know geekspeak
drjamessidbury: words are different
drjamessidbury: because they are not standardized
drjamessidbury: different computers use different sizes for words
drjamessidbury: both of my macs are relatively new and their word size is 64 bits (8 bytes)
drjamessidbury: this is also true for my newest windows computer
drjamessidbury: but my older windows computer has a word size of 32 bits
drjamessidbury: and my apple
drjamessidbury: apple ][ has a word size of 8 bits while my first IBM PC had a word size of 16
drjamessidbury: words simply represent the amount of data that a processor can manipulate at one time.
rtzjm8: pretty cool!
PaulinaM2012: It's confusing that they use the word "word" for the number of bits
PaulinaM2012: when i first read this, i thought they meants words like strings of letters
drjamessidbury: so if your computer is a 64 bit machine and mine is 32 bits then yours can manipulate twice as much data per step ans mine can
rtzjm8: i did the same thing!
marix3anne: me too!!
drjamessidbury: that's a common problem and the only solution is to be wary about what things mean
drjamessidbury: there are lots of "words" in English that have multiple meanings depending on the context
drjamessidbury: for example
drjamessidbury: I'm trying to think so if any of you have a good candidate chime in
PaulinaM2012: bit (haha)
drjamessidbury: that works
drjamessidbury: set can be both a noun and a verb
drjamessidbury: normal has six different meanings although many of them are technical
drjamessidbury: for example if one line is perpendicular to another one a mathematican might say it is a normal line
drjamessidbury: anyhow I'll probably think of a brilliant example or three after class :_
drjamessidbury: computers also move data in word sizes
drjamessidbury: so when a computer copies stuff from a disk to the memory it might copy 30 words at a time which would be very different depending on the word size of a computer.
drjamessidbury: the olther fly in the ointment is that if your computer is a 64 bit computer but you're running a 32 bit operating system then the computer is effectively a 32 bit computer
drjamessidbury: e.g. windows 95 and 98 are both 32 bits as is NT and win 2000
rtzjm8: Mac OS 9.1?
dialkyle19: interesting
borysboy: I thought XP was 32 bit
drjamessidbury: Windows XP and Vista and Windows 7 come in two versions x86 (the 32 bit version) and x64 the 64 bit version
borysboy: oh I didn't know there was a 64 bit for xp
drjamessidbury: most versions of XP are 32 bit but there are certain reasons that you might want to run 64 bit versions.
drjamessidbury: all mac OS's previous to OS X 10.4 (tiger) were 32 bits (or smaller for realllllllly old macs)
rtzjm8: we have a really old mac from 1990 that takes 10 to 15 minutes to boot!
drjamessidbury: this computer is running 64 bit vista
drjamessidbury: 32 bit vista and 32 bit XP can only use 3gb of memory but 64 bit versions can access more
drjamessidbury: and I have 8 gb memory on this machine.
drjamessidbury: I think in fact that theoretically a 64 bit operating system can access 16 000 000 gigabytes of memory
rtzjm8: thats a lot of memory
drjamessidbury: even at today's prices
drjamessidbury: the first memory I bought for my original apple ][ was 200 dollars for 16K
drjamessidbury: that works out to about 100,000 dollars per gig maybe more
borysboy: lol
drjamessidbury: and back then gasoline was about 50 cents per gallon
drjamessidbury: and for 50 cents you could get a hamburger, fries and a milkshake at macdonlds
marix3anne: wow!
drjamessidbury: and get change
PaulinaM2012: nice
BB uu GG 22 44: lol
drjamessidbury: 47 cents including tax.
PaulinaM2012: how many miles did you walk to school each day in the snow?
BB uu GG 22 44: lol
drjamessidbury: I had a summer job after college before going on to graduate school working for GE as a computer programmer.
drjamessidbury: It paid 2 dollars per hor
drjamessidbury: where I lived we didn't have snow
amyo8x2: omg
drjamessidbury: but it was up hill both ways
PaulinaM2012: lol
amyo8x2: HAHA i was just going to say that
marix3anne: haha
borysboy: lol
drjamessidbury: and btw get off my yard!
rtzjm8: that's really cool that u worked for GE
drjamessidbury: they used to make computers
rtzjm8: both my mom and dad worked there
drjamessidbury: anyhow that's as far as I want to go with data today
drjamessidbury: so CID
rtzjm8: ok
drjamessidbury: hang around if you wish
amyo8x2: goodnight
rtzjm8: Goodnight!
kurnathc2: thanks gnite
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BB uu GG 22 44: night
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marix3anne: thanks have a good night
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PaulinaM2012: thank you, good night
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borysboy: thanks, I had some questions about the webpage
drjamessidbury: OK
borysboy: I can't get it to publish with NVU
drjamessidbury: what are you using as your username?
borysboy: I type in everything it says but i get an error
borysboy: borysj2
drjamessidbury: and your password?
borysboy: R01234567 *this value changed by Dr Sid for security
drjamessidbury: and that is your R number?
borysboy: yea
drjamessidbury: what is the error that you get?
drjamessidbury: i.e.can you try now and tell me exactly
borysboy: the server is not available
borysboy: is says check my connection
drjamessidbury: let me check
borysboy: the HTTp address I use is: http://www.cil.cs.scranton.edu/~borysj2/
borysboy: and I use ftp://www.cil.cs.scranton.edu/public_html/ as the publishing server
drjamessidbury: that's what you should use I think
drjamessidbury: you might try it with the last / missing
drjamessidbury: I'm trying to see if the server is actually running
borysboy: I just tried with taking out both last slashes and it's the same error
drjamessidbury: the server is running
borysboy: I'm on a mac does that have anything to do with it?
drjamessidbury: shouldn't
drjamessidbury: It works for me with a mac
borysboy: hmm ok idk then I guess I'll try a different program or try it on XP
drjamessidbury: I don't have nvu on this computer.
drjamessidbury: if you want to IM me later this evening I'll try it on my mac and see if there's a problem
drjamessidbury: but I'll probably download kompozer since it's newer.
drjamessidbury: anything else
drjamessidbury: ?
borysboy: ok thanks, goodnight I'll try kompozer
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